Newzealanddoc
Philadelphia-born psychoanalyst, psychiatrist and author who emigrated to New Zealand in 2006. He retired from psychiatric practice in 2021, refusing to be inoculated, after working in the public sector in New Zealand.
Transcript Below
Okay, welcome and this is Dr Matt Shelton and it is a pleasure for me to be talking with him again.
0:10
I think the last time we did an interview together, Matt, was about a year ago.
0:13
I think it was November of the last year, possibly.
0:18
Is it that long?
0:19
You should make it clear, I’m Dr Matt Shelton, you’re Manny Garcia.
0:22
Yeah, you’re Dr Matt Shelton.
0:24
Yeah, I said I’m here with Dr Matt Shelton, exactly.
0:26
I think people can see your name too.
0:30
And you’re here in my series, my podcast series on Substack, which I’ve entitled Profiles in Courage.
0:37
You’ve been very courageous over the past several years, for sure, in many ways.
0:43
But just to get things started, Matt, just tell me and tell whoever’s going to listen in about you, who you are, brief summary of yourself.
0:54
Yeah, it’s all very uninteresting, really.
0:56
But yes, I mean, I’ve been a medical doctor for 38 years now.
1:01
And the last half of my career, I’ve sort of found my way increasingly to working from an integrative perspective.
1:09
So I’ve taught at postgraduate level, nutrition and environmental medicine.
1:16
And I’ve incorporated that as much as I’ve been able to in my sort of general practice work.
1:23
um you know it’s it was an evolutionary journey over a few years of recognizing the limitations actually of allopathic medicine um and how you know on the one hand incredibly powerful some drugs are um that always brings danger and and um particularly unpredictable unknowns the more medications people are on so it seemed to me that um i was never really um getting to the heart of why people are sick and what causes illness
1:50
So it was a sort of revolution, sorry, a revelation and I guess an evolution in my thinking to find tools.
1:59
I had to go, you know, I had to pay to learn them myself because you’re not spoon-fed these along the way.
2:06
That actually allowed me to do a much better job, I thought.
2:09
And it kind of reduces the stress in medicine too if you have more tools that you can use, more different ways of thinking that you can bring to bear.
2:16
And I remember thinking about this or talking about this with you
2:19
last year but it’s another year since then that I haven’t practiced medicine because I was suspended in August 2021 for essentially countering the the government’s narrative and you know being disobedient around what we were supposed to be saying but I felt I had a responsibility to the patients that were enrolled with me and for whom I received some government money for taking care of and I really just tried to give my my medical opinion and the rest is
3:14
and because the GP college had torn up my fellowship very quickly I would have to reapply under a different category than the vocational registration that I’ve used for my my virtually my entire time here which would mean that I would need an overseer satisfactory to the medical council and you know there would have been endless barriers and difficulties there so
3:40
I found myself working full time anyway, in different ways, and it actually suits me really to be not suspended, which I’m not, but just not practicing for now.
3:55
But it’s been a wrench.
3:57
You know, it’s been who I’ve been a doctor and the opportunity to, you know, make a contribution for all those years.
4:06
It’s still pretty sore.
4:07
What was the terrible thing that you did that the authorities went after you for?
4:10
The line in the sand for me was always when they’d start vaccinating the children.
4:30
We had the frontline workers and medical doctors have been told, in the first mandate actually, we got this guidance document that we were expected to be vaccinated.
4:42
And then they started doing the elderly, so people I think over 70.
4:49
And then suddenly one day the Prime Minister announced that the schools, school aged children were going to be done from the next day.
4:58
in the vaccination centers and you know I’ve been increasingly concerned and distressed really by what I saw happening this sort of headlong rush with no nuance and no acknowledgement of the inherent unknowns and potential dangers to get everybody vaccinated as fast as possible.
5:22
So I sent a text
5:24
out as being the the quickest way that I could reach the greatest number of people um to my patients who were under 50 and for whom we had um mobile phones uh really just just saying that that they should do their own due diligence and that um you know there were many unknowns and that we you know we weren’t preventing people from getting vaccinated um but there was um you know other information that they might want to look at
5:55
and particularly on our website, which was still relatively new, NZDSOS.com.
6:02
And yeah, it caused a complete shitstorm.
6:05
You know, I made a technical error, it seems, and that some patients who received the text hadn’t actually been my patients for some time.
6:12
So some younger people who’d, as I say, not been with me, and maybe perhaps already got vaccinated, got this text out of the blue.
6:20
And I totally understand
6:22
NewZealandDoc’s
6:50
which essentially undermined informed consent.
6:54
It was just taken down off the web, right?
6:58
Yeah, what was that last bit?
6:59
Yeah, it was just taken down.
7:00
This document was just taken down off the website, I saw.
7:03
Yeah, they’ve actually rescinded it, but in relative silence.
7:06
You know, doctors haven’t been told officially that this guidance document is no longer in force.
7:12
And it was sent out long before mandates were even discussed, actually, in this country.
7:18
I mean, at that stage, the Prime Minister was still saying that they wouldn’t make them compulsory.
7:25
So that was the first kind of official mandate, really.
7:27
But the other colleges or the other regulatory authorities, like the dentists and the nurses and everyone else, obviously took their cue and copied exactly what the Medical Council said, which is that we were expected to be vaccinated and that the benefits of vaccination should be
7:47
um encouraged uh and there was a a follow-up um public statement or two by the chairman of the medical council saying that essentially the anti-vaccine um you know information wouldn’t be tolerated so it was a very clear you know clear message that we were to get in get in behind um and and and you know give the good news but without um and in a way that was breaking the medicines act actually
8:14
that says that risks and benefits have to be discussed with any prescription medicine, which this is.
8:23
So it just felt wrong in so many ways.
8:27
And as you know, Manny, we’d already been looking at research and writing letters to the officials and the government trying to raise concerns and alarm bells.
8:37
And I was particularly mindful of children
8:40
for whom COVID was already very clearly not a significant threat at all, and women of childbearing age.
8:50
And I think in order to save text characters, I would have once to have written women of childbearing age.
8:58
But I had a limited number of text characters that I could use in one text.
9:02
So I just chose to write fertile women.
9:06
and that was seized on by the media and a number of people have said oh you know it sounded sleazy or dodgy and yet to put the text in the media in the way that that they did actually did us a huge service because many many people suddenly heard the name NZSOS for the first time and saw our website and
9:31
you know realized in fact that that it was not as clear-cut as this is safe and effective and and take it and you won’t get COVID and you certainly won’t die of it um which was the messaging as we know at the time and actually still is largely um and incredibly despite the overwhelming evidence that it does it is neither safe nor effective
9:54
It doesn’t really prevent COVID, it doesn’t prevent transmission.
9:57
Maybe it works for some people, you know, and if you want to take it, you can take it.
10:01
But what you did with your text, Matt, was really just tell people, listen, if I were to prescribe a medicine like a lanzapine or fluoxetine to a patient, okay,
10:12
I’d have to give them the risk and benefits.
10:14
I’d have to say, well, this might happen, this negative effect might happen, this is what we expect to happen if it works well, if something goes wrong, do this, that, the other.
10:24
All of a sudden, for this experimental jab that could not have been adequately tested because it was so new, with a new mechanism of action, doctors were told, just tell everybody it’s great, basically.
10:39
Yeah, that’s the sum of it.
10:42
And, you know, regrettably, many of us did just that.
10:48
Because, you know, we know that the power that the regulators have, they can and they have, you know, taken license licenses away, in an instant, stop you working, you know, the media, you know, hand you and, you know, all the other doctors kind of, you know, see what’s happening to you and are scared that the same thing might happen to themselves.
11:09
You know, there’s a lot of theater and witch hunts.
11:12
You know, we’ve used that word.
11:13
I mean, there’s a whole bunch of us who, in fact, most of the people who first put their signature to our first letter of concern.
11:22
And at that stage, we just we were naive and relatively innocent.
11:25
And we thought we would get a dialogue.
11:27
You know, we get an answer and we’d be able to engage the Medical Council and Medsafe and government officials.
11:36
um you know in in all these unknowns and what was the safety netting you know um how would we know um you know and we had the basic sort of pharmacovigilance system already but it was it was never funded or equipped to work as a um you know to work for this size of of essentially an experimental clinical trial and people who say it’s not experimental because billions of doses have been done given
12:02
Don’t really know what an experiment is.
12:03
An experiment is where you do something because you don’t know the outcome and you’re waiting to see what’s going to happen.
12:11
And that’s plainly what’s been happening.
12:13
And we’re seeing what’s happening.
12:16
We don’t know what’s going to happen next.
12:17
So the experiment is still ongoing.
12:19
So when you say we’re seeing what’s happening, tell us a little more about that.
12:23
What is happening?
12:25
Well, you know, even the mainstream media will talk about this astonishing
12:32
rise in all-cause mortality.
12:33
More people are dying than ever before in New Zealand history.
12:38
And it’s happening in, funnily, all the heavily vaccinated countries around the world.
12:43
And this is absolutely, you know, true.
12:48
You know, you can just look at any of the, you know, the mainstream outlets and at least they’re talking about that.
12:56
And, you know, when government officials say in the UK Parliament, do give an answer,
13:02
It’s usually around the well, you know, it’s happening in other countries, too so end of story well it is and You know the mechanisms the pathways for how This experimental gene transfer technology because we have to remember it’s not a vaccine Yeah, not as we’ve you know, it’s another norm that’s been changed the definition that was mysteriously changed in 2019 like the definition of herd immunity
13:32
etc.
13:33
The goal post has been moved to shoe this thing in because calling it a vaccine gives liability protection to the companies and it means that a whole bunch of testing that all other drugs go through particularly looking at genotoxicity so that’s damage to the genome and possible effects on the DNA you know the sort of the startup and functioning instructions in the cell and for congenital malformations and
14:01
um that sort of toxicity too you know none of that had to be done simply because it had been redefined as as uh as a vaccine so you know the evidence has just grown and has been consistent and continued uh and we as a group have been you know talking with more and more families more and more people who’ve been injured more and more bereaved people about their situations and we’ve seen patterns of um
14:29
Obfuscation and denial and non-cooperation at the level of the postmortems, whether you can actually get a postmortem, what the results show and then what the coroners say about it.
14:45
There are a few things we can say and that is that causes unknown or died of unknown cause is becoming a very common cause of death.
14:57
in Alberta in Canada it’s the commonest cause of death on death certificates now and yet they can say with absolute certainty without despite not knowing what killed somebody that it wasn’t the vaccine and if that isn’t a red flag with a really bad smell I don’t know what is.
15:14
Well, let me, yeah, I mean, I’ve talked about this myself many, many times.
15:18
I’ve asked the question, how many people have to die suddenly?
15:21
How many athletes have to die on the pitch?
15:23
How many young kids have to get heart attacks that never got them before?
15:26
And all you get as well, I guess we’re getting acculturated to sort of expecting people just to die at this point.
15:34
I think they’re sort of softening us up, Matt.
15:38
I saw a terribly despicable piece of propaganda talking about childhood heart attacks.
15:47
something and you know and i’m thinking when did this ever kids you know it’s a rare rare rare thing and all of a sudden we’re being kind of conditioned to accept oh well this happens just like the excess deaths i guess people die that’s right everybody dies all these soccer players who are dying i guess they die too it’s we’re in a bizarre world that they’ve created and it’s a very traumatic one for many people you know you live in this cloud where left is right right is left
16:16
Herd immunity doesn’t exist.
16:18
Natural immunity doesn’t exist.
16:20
Treating people early was never encouraged.
16:23
In fact, people are being punished because they decided they should treat people with symptoms with the right medications.
16:30
And that’s part of this witch hunt.
16:32
I’m particularly peeved at the Medical Council, which I think is a totally corrupt organization.
16:41
and I’ve seen what’s happened to my colleagues, people you know, who are being hauled in front of their professional conduct committees and health practitioners, tribunals and whatnot.
16:53
And what have they done?
16:54
Have they killed people?
16:56
Have they damaged people?
16:57
They’ve done nothing but actually try to help people.
16:59
And it’s my opinion they should be awarded medals for what they’ve done.
17:02
Instead, they continue to go after these people for the most ridiculous of things.
17:09
I mean, really, can you talk about any of that from what you know?
17:12
Are you able to discuss that publicly?
17:15
Yeah, well, as you know, Manny, we’re actually taking the Medical Council to court over their use of the guidance and their censure of early treatment.
17:28
And yes, you know, they’re taking a number of us to the cleaners for discussing, recommending, prescribing, trying to import
17:37
you know some of the medicines that you know from very early on you know there was reliable peer-reviewed double-blind controlled trials and meta-analyses of those trials which is the highest level of evidence you can get and we’ve been you know attacked for that and yet told that this experimental medicine this new platform with no history of use in immunology and never a single product before with only provisional consent
18:06
or what’s known in other countries as emergency use authorization.
18:11
We’re to encourage that and not discuss any of the downsides.
18:15
I mean, it is a completely Alice in Wonderland situation.
18:22
And I think what troubles a lot of people when we put this stuff out there is that in order to accept what we say is happening, they have to believe that many, many people
18:36
NewZealandDoc’s Newsletter featuring NewZealandDoc’s
18:59
and senior figures in medicine, I guess, as well.
19:03
You know, we have the people in medical council, we have a college for GPs, and we have a college for physicians, and we have the NZMA, all that’s defunct now.
19:13
You know, and all the nurses and the chiropractors and the physios and everybody, you know, has kind of got in behind.
19:21
And a lot of those people know that it’s wrong.
19:23
but it’s human nature that we, you know, we don’t want to go first, we copy what everybody else does, you know, we’re afraid basically and as long as everybody’s doing the same thing then, you know, maybe we personally won’t get criticized, we won’t get singled out and punished even if we know it’s wrong.
19:47
But there are some people who don’t know that it’s wrong and they were so captured
19:52
by the fear narrative and they were told like many of the doctors were told at the beginning essentially that this is kind of battlefield conditions there’s going to be dead bodies everywhere you’re going to have to triage you know this is unlike a situation you’ve ever been in so by implication you know all the norms of you know the niceties in medicine can be chucked out the window because this is going to be the worst thing you’ve ever been in and it turned out very quickly even before COVID ever got to New Zealand
20:20
based on data out of other countries, that it wasn’t the worst thing ever.
20:23
It was just another, you know, influenza level degree of illness.
20:30
But in fact, you know, many people who supposedly had COVID had no symptoms at all.
20:34
And many others had symptoms, you know, related to just like a cold.
20:39
Whereas with influenza, it’s fairly binary, you know, if you have influenza, you feel terrible for a week, and then you get better.
20:45
And if you’re elderly or infirm,
20:47
um then you don’t get better and and we see that every year this is the reality of of um you know of medicine and um what happens in different demographics um so i think that’s the big cognitive block for so many people is they see everybody else thinking and feeling the same thing so they’re all enabling each other and of course you know smart people they know that we have biases but they don’t think they apply to them you know they think they’re smart enough to know their own biases and it’s just everybody else
21:17
21:44
what we’ll do if the right buttons are pushed and we all have these same buttons, then Bob’s your uncle.
21:52
This is why we are where we are.
21:56
And we’ve seen this in history numerous times.
21:59
And we keep coming back to the example of 1930s Germany, and it still stands as a very good one, how you can bewitch and hypnotize a whole population into tolerating really dreadful things.
22:11
But it didn’t happen in an instant.
22:13
You know, the whole of the 1930s, this Overton’s window was shifted, this range of things that people would tolerate and accept as normal was gradually moved, sort of almost imperceptibly, and people are taken along with it.
22:28
So that then, you know, they look back and eventually they’re reminded of how things were.
22:33
NewZealandDoc’s Newsletter featuring NewZealandDoc’s
22:42
when sanity has returned because it will i think it will um it’s going to be really where the real hard work starts i’d like to talk to you about that do you feel that there is a turning tide and i know we’ve talked about this many times we’re all waiting for the tide to turn the pendulum to swing you know do you feel there’s movement now in those people who have trusted the authorities and are now they have to be aware of something that isn’t quite right at this point i would think what did you see
23:11
I do many and I mean this isn’t just hopium or selection bias I don’t think you know we’ve sensed for some time certainly an undercurrent and a gradual shift and look at the election you know three out of four people didn’t vote for the government that we just had yeah so majority of people didn’t think they were doing a good enough job to deserve to come back in again now that doesn’t mean that all those people are alert to how
23:41
Dr Matt Shelton Change is in the Air
24:10
NewZealandDoc
24:36
released by by Steve Kurtz from a country and I’m not I’m not 100% certain which country it is but the promise is that this is reliable record level data that’s going to show the extent of harms that clearly are known inside governments somewhere and I think that’s going to be big and I hope that that adds to the momentum
25:01
of this shift back to kind of where things were before, you know, we were bewitched and beguiled and frightened into a sort of, you know, make compliance.
25:13
So essentially what you’re saying is that there are data that the government has has in its possession that they haven’t really released to anyone at this point.
25:24
Well, we’ve been suspicious of that here and other people have in their own
25:28
in their own countries too, because what we’re seeing and hearing on the ground and what’s actually reported in the media, what we’re hearing from funeral directors, ambulance drivers, people inside the health system, speaks to carnage, frankly.
25:44
Huge numbers of injuries, strokes, heart attacks, more of everything, but especially in younger and younger people.
25:53
This for me is the clincher.
25:54
This isn’t just another 10 elderly people dying in this country on average.
26:00
It’s across the age ranges.
26:02
As a working doctor for 38 years, I’ve maybe been aware of a couple of child deaths only.
26:09
Sudden, unexpected child deaths with no warning.
26:16
Not just in my practice.
26:17
There was one in my practice about five years ago.
26:22
NewZealandDoc’s Newsletter featuring NewZealandDoc’s
26:42
and he’s always asking people to test him and debate him on the numbers.
26:47
And no one ever does, by the way.
26:48
No one ever takes him up on his challenges.
26:49
You notice that?
26:50
He’s offered a million dollars, I think, to people to debate him about something.
26:54
But I want to bring up a medical case in front of you.
26:55
You, as a doctor, okay?
26:58
One of my neighbors last Easter had a pulmonary embolism three days after she had been diagnosed with a
27:08
DVT, deep venous thrombosis.
27:11
They sent her home.
27:12
She had a PE, survived that, got to hospital, survived that.
27:16
And I happened to ask her afterwards, I said, well, what did they say?
27:20
You know, they give you any idea what might have caused this?
27:23
And she said, no, nobody knows anything.
27:25
They can’t understand anything.
27:26
Okay.
27:27
All right.
27:28
A week later then, when I asked her the same question, she said, oh, now, now I know what happened.
27:33
This is from when I had COVID a year and a half ago.
27:38
Okay, now I do know this person because this person works as a teacher, has been jabbed at least three times, probably four times.
27:48
Okay, no one, one person has talked to her about the possibility, I’m not saying the definite, certain causative factor,
28:00
and all of this, but the possibility that this could have been a factor in something developing, particularly given the fact that we do know from a lot of sources about the thrombogenic nature of the jab, about all the clotting problems and everything else.
28:15
So this is what is killing me about this, Matt.
28:17
And for example, I heard a very famous particle physicist, cosmologist, whatever, put out a YouTube video.
28:26
The person is a big influencer, a real physicist, real mathematician, real scientist, and present an entire video on long COVID.
28:37
and all the sequelae, all the complications, etc.
28:41
And never once talking about the possibility that what people are seeing as long COVID could also be the result of complications arising from the so-called vaccine.
28:55
Now that to me is astonishing and demoralizing because this is a real, supposed to be a real scientist, you know, doing math at levels that I can’t even dream of, that kind of stuff.
29:05
And yet here they are putting this stuff out.
29:08
And I have to say, I was just absolutely deadened by that.
29:11
I couldn’t, I couldn’t believe my eyes and ears.
29:15
But as a, as a psychiatrist and an analyst, Manny, don’t, don’t you, um, well, I mean, I know you do.
29:21
We’re human beings first.
29:24
and then, you know, scientists, artists, musicians, writers, you know, police, whatever, whatever we do second, you know, we use such a tiny, thin kind of veneer of our intellect, of our brain’s capacity for actually thinking.
29:39
Yeah.
29:40
You know, and much of it is involved beneath the surface, isn’t it?
29:43
All these these hidden processes that we’re not aware of, unless we dedicate ourselves to a lifetime of, you know, therapy or just inquiry, mindfulness, whatever.
29:51
And then we can start to second guess.
29:55
and some of what I mind.
29:56
But Matt, here’s a person who spends her time puzzling about dark energy, dark matter, particles that haven’t been discovered, gravitons, quantum gravity.
30:07
I mean, these are very difficult things.
30:10
And here I’m talking about a pretty simple issue, which is that there may be a few variables you have to consider when someone comes down with something.
30:19
If someone’s sick, you have to consider more than one variable, right?
30:22
I mean, that’s really the most simplistic kind of science you can imagine.
30:27
She’s just as vulnerable to groupthink and recognizing her area of expertise
30:46
and so she will, you know, hand over the sort of intellectual rigor that she brings maybe to her area of confident expertise.
30:53
So then my question is, Matt, so when did she become a medical doctor?
30:57
When did she, what gives her the right to talk about long COVID as an astrophysicist or a particle, whatever the hell she is, you know, a cosmologist?
31:06
I get it, but she’s been enabled to do that by seeing everybody else do it as well.
31:12
you know here we are everybody and anybody you know in this country anybody who’s got any sort of profile has been saying get the jab and they’ve all been breaking the medicines act you know it’s a prescription medicine that uh you know requires a nuanced conversation um of of pros and cons um by a registered medical practitioner uh you know so they’re all they’re all practicing medicine without a license you know has a single one of them been arrested or taken to court
31:41
it’s a clown world it’s a it’s a clown world and and it’s it’s it’s to me speaks more than anything else um just about the human condition you know this this has happened because it can happen you know and we’ve learned a lot uh but we probably you know smart people have been warning us i guess about crowd psychology and and you know blinkers and and willful blindness and heads in the sand i mean you know we all do it in our lives in various different aspects you know there’s there’s nothing
32:10
32:38
And of course, we always hear about the new dangers that are coming down the pike, new pandemics that might be arising and all these kinds of things.
32:47
I mean, there’s an operation of inducing fear in everybody so that we should be grateful to have the little bit of human rights that we have and be happy with that as opposed to thinking, well, we can live relatively freely.
33:02
I mean, there’s no such thing as complete freedom, but we do have rights.
33:05
We have the ability to
33:07
that to have pleasure and and travel and you know fulfill our communion with each other you know and that’s that’s been one of the most damaging things you know we go on and on about the vaccine but but this social distancing you know separating people from each other the masking hiding our faces exactly yes um you know isolating people in their own homes um you know driving driving wedges and creating these these false distinctions um
33:34
NewZealandDoc’s Newsletter featuring NewZealandDoc’s
34:04
um you know it it it takes it takes a while to start to kind of wake up to the dangers and that the world is crawling with predators and it’s it’s crawling with with you know the worker ants and and and and the and the lieutenants um and the people who just want to know what the rules are uh and who’s in charge so they can be happy and you know and that is how organized human societies work and it’s how we got to the top of the food chain you know through cooperation
34:33
and through you know people contributing what they’re able to um you know given the um you know the sort of merit meritocracy this you know well we’re not all equal at birth um but we all have a vested interest um in in success um you know we’ve just come a very long way very quickly i think and we’ve been living in in complex societies and and we’d only just done away with the fear of of um
35:01
NewZealandDoc
35:24
So we’re under assault from all directions.
35:28
And it amazes me that many people have kept it together as well as they have.
35:32
And Matt, what about this idea that the sacrosanct inviolability of your body, forget about the soul for now, you have an inviolable barrier here, which is your body.
35:47
No one has a right to inject you, put anything into you that you don’t want to take.
35:54
I mean, really, this has been, they have transgressed that boundary.
35:57
They’ve tried to, and they have put… Well, we shouldn’t even have to say, you’re right, we shouldn’t even have to say in an ideal world, because even in this very unideal world, you know, we’ve had, you know, the Nuremberg Code, the Helsinki Declaration, you know, international government on civil and political rights, you know, all of these things say, you know, the right to decline medical treatment, you know, the right not to be tortured, you know, all of the human rights that are innate
36:24
36:53
a fence it’s it’s a line that that once crossed um you know unless somebody stops things very quickly the rest is inevitable and can end up um with with with you know terror and and torture and and oppression and murder and atrocities because that’s that’s what happens when you don’t have a moral code or when you have one and then you’ve torn it up and you try and replace the individual conscience
37:22
of the doctor, in our case, or whoever, by dictates from the state.
37:29
And this is just ideology, and it’s a political system that’s never actually worked in practice, as far as I know, in any country.
37:37
It’s actually just led to the deaths of hundreds of millions of people at the hands of their own government.
37:42
And yet there are still people who still think that they have the divine right to tell us what to think, how to live, and they can
37:51
38:03
Well, do you think the legal system can be relied upon to give these issues a fair hearing?
38:10
Now, I know we’ve had a few victories in the legal system.
38:13
Sue Gray, for example, they tried to take her law practicing license away, and she fought back and she won, which was to her great credit.
38:22
Do you think that the judiciary will kind of come to their senses and understand these fundamental issues and protect us?
38:32
Yeah, I think so.
38:33
I do.
38:34
I mean, the system’s only as good as the people who, you know, uphold it.
38:40
And as you say, we’ve had some important wins.
38:42
I mean, there’s been a whole bunch of employment court cases where, you know, and people keep winning, you know, they’re winning against the fact they were mandated unfairly out of work.
38:52
And we’ve won, you know, our suspension cases, and other people have around the world.
38:57
And essentially, we’ve all won on the human rights issues.
39:03
Our right to free speech and our freedom of conscience has been breached and it shouldn’t have been.
39:09
They go out of their way to avoid testing the science and if they have to there’s always a deference to the government expert as if we’re such a big country with such a vast gene pool that the most correct and the most talented will somehow always float to the top and end up in government positions.
39:31
um you know and we shouldn’t second shouldn’t second guess them um and that has to change and that’s what i’m really hopeful that a proper inquiry will will show you know judges they look and they see where the process is followed yeah and they really try not to have to look at what’s called the merits of the decision so you know parliament makes a decision and passes a law that’s it there’s nothing that judge judges can do about it you know no matter how wrong or unfair
40:01
40:27
40:42
41:03
But they’ve won a lot of cases and it’s because they’re going for the law and to the letter of the law.
41:11
So that’s a very hopeful sign that these successes have occurred.
41:17
Before we wrap up for the evening, is there anything else you want to say or talk about?
41:22
I mean, we could go on forever.
41:24
You know me, Manny.
41:26
When we really get going.
41:30
Much of it maybe we shouldn’t put on air.
41:33
But I am feeling, I mean it’s been a really hard road.
41:39
You know as well, just keeping smiling, keeping working, holding the truths dear and sticking always to, as your starting point, is this behaviour ethical and moral?
41:57
And I do just want to say that it’s
42:00
It’s just not sticking for the authorities to say, you know, the definition now of a disinformation doctor or misinformation doctor essentially is one who disagrees with the government because that’s actually what they’re saying.
42:14
And that the first, you know, ethical responsibility that a doctor has nowadays is not to the individual patient in front of you, but in fact, to maintain the confidence of the whole population in the public health
42:29
Edifice.
42:31
Now, so that’s basically saying it’s about obedience to the state loyalty to the state.
42:37
uh and not the patient in front of you and and you know until my last breath that will never that will never wash with me um and that’s a subversion that’s a submersion it’s a version of the most fundamental of medical principles really when you think of it and that’s but that’s what they’ve been doing they’ve subverted so much matt they’ve changed perceptions about the world they’ve told us black is white or whatever pieces uh strength pieces weakness and all that kind of
43:06
But I am feeling hopeful too.
43:07
I think the change in government is a good sign.
43:09
I think that I have a feeling too among regular people that they’re noticing that things aren’t quite right and haven’t been quite right.
43:19
And I think that our actions, I think the New Zealand Doctors SOS actions, legal actions are going to be very important in all this.
43:27
And you’ve been really a tremendous driving force in the organization.
43:31
You put yourself out there, so you deserve tremendous credit.
43:35
Let’s keep our heads crossed.
43:38
Yeah, yeah.
43:38
Well, I think so.
43:39
And I think this is going to, we’re going to recover because most people are fundamentally good, you know, and it’s the goodness in people that has been taken advantage of.
43:49
You know, they’ve been tricked, coerced, you know, nudged, you know, been told things that are completely wrong.
43:56
And they’ve done things for the right reasons, they thought, but they’ve been given wrong information.
44:02
And, you know, I think those people will
44:06
Wake up to protect themselves and their families and each other.
44:10
We just have to find a way of breaking through and getting the right information to people in the right way that will help this kind of hypnosis or whatever it is that some people are still in.
44:22
And the people that are awake, we need to give them the courage to recognize the power that they have, certainly if they work together and they just assert their rights that never should have been taken away in the first place.
44:33
Exactly.
44:34
Exactly.
44:35
And so we don’t fall into the same trap, you know, again and again through human history.
44:40
Well, that’s well said, Matt.
44:41
And thank you so much for talking again.
44:45
We’ll have to talk another time soon as well, because I know so much is going on.
44:50
And it’s a pleasure for me always to discuss these very important things.
44:57
So thanks a million.
44:59
I’ll stop.
44:59
You’re welcome.
45:01
Okay.
Dr. Shelton is a founding member of New Zealand Doctors Speaking Out with Science (www.nzdsos.com). He discusses the covid phenomenon and its ramifications as well as the winds of change that are blowing with the recent installation of a new government here in New Zealand that promises an official inquiry into the former government’s measures to manage covid, including the approach to vaccination.
