KAREN CHHOUR: Interviewed by Mike Hosking May 14, 2024
Listen here at NewstalkZB.
Transcript:
Mike Hosking: So, the weird old business of the Children’s [Minister] appearing before the Waitangi Tribunal came to an end yesterday with a loss for the government. The High Court said the Tribunal could not summons the Minister, the Appeal Court over-turned that. It doesn’t matter anyway because the legislation’s in the house so the Tribunal’s jurisdiction’s come to an end. The Minister concerned is Karen Chhour who is with us. A very good morning to you.
Karen Chhour: Good morning, Mike.
Mike Hosking: How’s this whole experience been for you, if we’ve all just been wandering around wasting everyone’s time and money?
Karen Chhour: Look. I came to parliament to make a real difference in young people’s lives. I saw a problem, I campaigned on the problem and I listened to the issues out in the community. And I made a promise to those people that I’d make some real change and this is part of that promise, removing Section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act. Didn’t know it was going to get as much attention as it has, but I actually think it is really good that this conversation has started.
Mike Hosking: Is the Tribunal over-reaching in general?
Karen Chhour: I can’t talk about the case right now but what I can talk about is the actual bill that the case was about and that is about making sure all our young people are treated with dignity and respect, and get the care that they deserve.
Mike Hosking: In simple terms what you are looking to do is place the child, race aside, with the best possible carer, correct?
Karen Chhour: Absolutely. This is to make sure that we give a clear direction to everybody who is working with our young people that their best interests and safety come first and foremost. Whanau, hapu and iwi can be important in a child’s life, but what’s most important is that they are safe.
Mike Hosking: How can you possibly argue that the best outcome for the child doesn’t trump everything, including race?
Karen Chhour: I really don’t understand that, because at the end of the day, over 65 percent of kids in care are Maori, and we know that Maori are the highest victims of harmful behaviour, of family violence and harm, and we also know that those stats have risen significantly over the last few years. We need to make sure our young people are safe and that’s all I am doing, and I will keep fighting and I will make sure that this happens.
Mike Hosking: So your message to the Tribunal, that you are unrepentant, and you are unapologetic?
Karen Chhour: Yes, I am unapologetic for putting the children first. That’s what I am here for and that’s why I put my hand up. To make sure our young people are safe. We can’t have our young people dying.
I got sent Lady Moxon’s interview yesterday with Heather where she stated that children come out of state care traumatised. I would argue, let’s tell the whole story. Children coming into care are traumatised. Oranga Tamariki is there at children’s worst moments. I take my hat off to all those social workers out there who are trying to make the hardest decisions and the best decisions for our young people. I’m going to give them the tools to be able to make those decisions.
Mike Hosking: Well said Karen. Appreciate your time as always. Karen Chhour, who’s the Minister for Children.
Postscript: Hosking interviewed the Prime Minister shortly after. Luxon stated, “The substantive issue here is we are very united and strongly aligned around the fact that we don’t believe Section 7AA is the right thing. We think the primacy of the child is important over and above their cultural needs.”
